About this Show

Morning Joe

News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers and politicians; host Joe Scarborough. New.

NETWORK

DURATION
03:00:00

RATING

SCANNED IN
San Francisco, CA, USA

SOURCE
Comcast Cable

TUNER
Virtual Ch. 787 (MSNBC HD)

VIDEO CODEC
mpeg2video

AUDIO CODEC
ac3

PIXEL WIDTH
1920

PIXEL HEIGHT
1080

TOPIC FREQUENCY

Boston 66, Us 18, New York 18, London 18, Fbi 14, Washington 13, Britain 11, America 11, Margaret Thatcher 10, Mika 10, Mike Barnicle 10, Martin Richard 9, Chicago 8, The City 8, Joe Manchin 7, Rudy Giuliani 7, Joe 6, Florida 6, Massachusetts 6, Nbc 5,
Borrow a DVD
of this show
  MSNBC    Morning Joe    News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers  
   and politicians; host Joe Scarborough. New.  

    April 17, 2013
    3:00 - 5:59am PDT  

3:00am
i actually want to start with one that came up through the family of nbc about reports of marathon runners who literally crossed the finish line and ran straight to mass general hospital to donate blood. this from the nhl. keith aucoin on people and family affected yesterday, pray for boston. you see it there on his skates. that kind of stuff happening all across the country. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ you'll hear me when i say oh that love ♪ ♪ >> new yorkers and boston, obviously, have kind of a little bit of, you know, a competition oftentimes the two cities accusing each other of various
3:01am
levels of suckatude. but it is in situations like this that we realize it is clearly a sibling riffwrithe riy and we are your brothers and sisters in this type of event as the city that knows the feeling of confusion, anger, and grief and chaos that comes with these events, i can tell you from personal experience, you got a hell of a city going there. and you've done an incredible job in the face of all this. >> nice. good morning. it is wednesday, april 17th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, as we look at more scenes from the tragedy in boston, we have msnbc and "time" magazine senior pliolitical analyst mark halpern and steve rattner and in boston, mike
3:02am
barnicle. in washington, washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. good to have everyone back here in new york as well and mike working around the clock, around the clock in his city of boston. we will start, though, with the latest on the investigation. new details surrounding the explosive used in boston and the two lingering questions who built them and why. nbc has obtained these photos of what remains of a pressure cooker which was used as the delivery device for the explosives. law enforcement sources tell nbc news the bombs were built to act like homemade ieds. sources tell nbc news the bombs included a battery pack and "the boston globe" reports investigators recovered a part of a circuit board at the scene. the bombs were packed with
3:03am
scha shrapnel. the bomb was not capable of creating a massive blast. instead, its main purpose was to maim and injure. photos obtained by whdh in boston showed the area where the bomb was left moments before and moments after the detonation. the fbi is looking at these photos and others like them for clues as to who placed the bombs and when. now there is precedent for devices like these. in 2004, the fbi sent out a memo on the use of homemade pressure cooker bombs. al qaeda's online magazine gave instructions for making them just last month and in the 2010 attempted attack on times square, one of the devices found included a pressure cooker and 125 firecrackers. meanwhile, the search of an apartment belonging to a foreign student injured in the blast has so far turned up nothing and he's not considered a suspect at this point.
3:04am
yesterday, president obama was direct in his characterization of the bombings. >> this was a heinous and cowardly act and given what we now know about what took place, the fbi is investigating it as an act of terrorism. any time bombs are used to target innocent civilians, it is an act of terror. we also know this. the american people refuse to be terrorized because what the world saw yesterday in the aftermath of the explosions were stories of heroism and kindness and generosity and love. exhausted runners who kept reasoning to the nearest hospital to give blood and some stayed to tend to the wounded and turning off their clothes to make tourniquets and the men and women who are still treating the wounded at some of the best hospitals in the world. so if you want to know who we are, what america is, how we
3:05am
respond to evil, that's it. selflessly, compassionately, unaffirmative. >> the death toll stands at three. more than 170 people injured. 71 of them still hospitalized and the injuries are -- we are looking at pictures from the scene. >> terrible. "sports illustrated" put out an edition on boston. actually a shot of basically -- where the explosion took place and there's so many other shots in here of the impact and the before and after of somebody going up and somebody placed the bag right in front of there. again, "the new york times" is saying today, as you've said, the bombs weren't intended to kill a lot of people. so much as they were intended to maim, to injure, to do exactly
3:06am
what they did. >> there is the cover of "time" magazine. it's a special edition that they put out in light of this tragedy. a picture there says it all too. >> front page of "the boston globe." we got our first photographs and learned a lot more about some of the victims yesterday. this is martin richard, the 8-year-old, if you go down here. 8-year-old boy holding a sign in his classroom last year "no more hurting people. peace." something he made last year in may for an event the school was doing. this is 29-year-old krystal campbell, a graduate student from china. if you read through these pieces, martin richard died at the age of 8 and a 10-year-old in critical condition with severe leg injuries and a 9-year-old girl who lost one of her legs. three people died but there are a lot of people whose lives and
3:07am
family lives who have been altered forever. >> why don't we go to mike barnicle before we do more on the investigation and get a sense of where boston is right now. me mike, you've been talking to people literally since this tragedy struck. i know a news conference yesterday with the mayor and a lot of boston's best coming together to put together funds for the families of the injured and the killed and the city is coming together as best it can. >> it is, mika. last evening, there was a memorial service, a neighborhood memorial service in the dorchester section of boston for martin richard and his family, but specifically for young martin, wi8 years old who was killed in the blast. a few people showed up at a playground a few blocks from the
3:08am
richard home. a beautiful sunset service held yesterday. the national anthem was played, "god bless america." no speeches. no politicians. yesterday afternoon, right here at this site where you were yesterday morning, about 1:30, 2:00 in the afternoon, the crowds, pedestrian traffic was fairly thick as the city comes back to life, pretty quickly, actually. a young man came beyond the fence line over in the public garden near where the swan boats were, walked towards this corner. he took a clairinet out of a cae he was carrying and played a perfect pitch of the spar spanglnin dr star spa-spangled banner.
3:09am
a crowd burst into applause. to answer your question, this city took a bunch as a lot of cities have, specifically new york city on september 11th. city dropped for its knee but it's up now. it's walking. it's going. we are moving on. >> mike, talk about the city coming back to life. we had some baseball and, obviously, you've got a crime scene in the center of the activity, commercial activity and offices. what is the city doing now that is not back to normal? what is back to normal? >> well, mark, most of the city is slowly coming back to normal. they have reopened most of the streets in back bay, including a portion of boyldton street. it appears that street might be open from copley square down to where i'm sitting now by the end of the day hopefully, but they still have forensic seems
3:10am
gathering material at the site. the picture on the front of "the globe globe" displays people from the roof. there is degree of the bomb from several rooftops they are gathering. the other interesting thing that is going on has nothing to do with streets being blocked so much as it has to do with i talk to one of the forensic people last evening and they were talking about psychological profiles that this will be a particularly interesting psychological profile because asbestos has been pointed out numerous times, these low level blasts left apparently in two satcheled at sidewalk level and just dropped there and camouflage, perhaps in a bag, somewhatever. pressure cooker bombs two sites dropped there and dropped there to do maximum damage to human beings but also maximum
3:11am
exposure. you had many cameras there. if the bombs had been set down in kenmore square or heartbreak hill nearly the onsite live tv coverage that was recorded here. interesting psychological profile. >> one of the great frustration right now for not only law enforcement people but all americans that keep tuning in wanting some sort of lead. there doesn't appear to be any good leads right now. the cameras were fixed there when somebody dropped the bag. of course, law enforcement officers are desperately trying to find out who dropped the bag and how they followed them. of course, we brought up the london example of the terror bombing in london where because they had the cameras on the streets, they literally followed the terrorists and, katty, great
3:12am
kampl of londexample of london, terrorist can't do anything through the main streets of london without law enforcement there knowing within 30 minutes to an hour who did it. >> able to track it. >> and actually able to track them where they are going and, here, we seem to be still stumbling around in the dark. >> yeah. i was speaking to tim roamy yesterday from the 9/11 commission and he was talking about these self-targets and the difference here in the states and the uk as you mentioned, joe, we have cc-tv cameras everywhere in london. you can't move in that city without being intermediate at some point and because there are so many, it gives the police the opportunity to sequence them. they can see people moving from the frame of one camera into the vision of the next camera and it does allow you to follow people's movements. new york city has stepped up cc-tv cameras a lot and many more in new york than there are in boston. but the issue of how we in a
3:13am
democratic society where people do have freedoms and do have privacy rights are going to, in the future, protect self-targets and those are the targets that people are particularly concerned about in the light of boston is going to be a struggle for law enforcement and for us as a country. how much surveillance are people prepared to have? because there is going to be a lot more. we will see other cities following what new york has done and having cameras being stepped up right throughout the city. >> all right. now the three people who were killed in the blast here in boston, the two blasts, had little in common, except they each had come to watch the end of the marathon. martin richard who we were discussing earlier was just 8 yerls owned and had gone to the race to watch the race with his family. according to "the boston globe" they took a break for ice cream before changing their seats to watch the end of the race to the
3:14am
finish line. today, his mother who is a librarian at his school and his sister are still seriously injured and 8-year-old martin has become a symbol of innocence. as willie showed earlier the photo of him holding the sign "no more hurting people. peace." has been shared across the globe. we showed you a chalk drawing he made over the weekend is still outside his home and the word peace near the front of his house. by nightfall more than a thousand people gathered at a nearby playground in dorchester for another candlelight vigil. another victim, krystal campbell had moved into her grandmother's house to take care of her after she had surgery.
3:15am
it was actually krystal who was dead. >> we have broken at the death of our daughter krystal marie. she was a wonderful person. everybody who knew her, loved her. she was always smiling. you couldn't ask for a better daughter. we can't believe this has happened. she has so happy in everything she did. this doesn't make any sense. >> the third victim was a boston university graduate student from china watching the end of the race with two friends not far from the school's campus. why don't we bring in nbc national security analyst and former director of the national counterterrorism center, michael leiter. in light of what we just talked about, michael, the victims, the
3:16am
reasons they were there, their families and the pain so many people are going through, it's so frustrating to hear there is so little known right now about who did this and why and accountability. >> it's, obviously, so tragic, mika. i'm going to maybe disagree a little bit about progress and i know people are impatient. it's impossible not to hear these stories and want to know why, how, who did this. the fact is we are not even 39 hours into this investigation. in fact, i think a lot of progress was made yesterday identifying in some detail the components of all the bomb, how the bombs were covered and how they, in some ways, how they were delivered potentially the great picture near the mailbox of the bag. that is absolutely critical. and i would remind that we were talking about london before. the idea the entire city is wired for surveillance. it took the brits weeks and months to get through that surveillance tape and actually piece everything together.
3:17am
so i know it is hard going through all this. but i think actually a lot of progress has been made and i hope that will accelerate over the coming days. >> steve rattner? >> michael, even though they woof those kind of security cameras here as the police have pointed out there, were so many thousands and thousands of i phon -- i phones and every other device pointed at that spot and you have to believe we will find some things. i guess i also have to believe those bombs and packages could not have been there for very long without being noticed perhaps. so perhaps you even end up with video of someone placing them there. >> steve, i think you're absolutely right. this is a revolution the past several years. everybody has a camera and everybody is taping things especially in an event like the marathon. i'm with you. i'm rather convinced there is going to be tape or pictures of someone walking with those bags, dropping them off, and from there, the fbi and the joint terrorism task force can piece that together with other phone
3:18am
records, other surveillance tapes and it's going to take some time to get through all that. the fact it's coming in from thousands of bystanders makes it a little bit more difficult but that is, i think, the most likely path to a big break in this case. >> michael, it's willie. i hope you don't mind me sharing this on the air. the striking efficiency of which these hospitals processed these patients coming in and something you wouldn't think they could ever be prepared for but somehow they were. there was no chaos in the emergency rooms. they had enough doctors there. and you say there was an exercise a couple of years ago that actually prepared them for this? >> willie, that's right. boston is a premier city for this to happen with the hospitals. back in march of 2011, we actually ran the federal government in conjunction with the city of boston ran an exercise which simulated a mumbai style attack of multiple attackers within the city and
3:19am
dealing with the mass casualties. hospitals were involved. the police were involved. fbi was involved. so all of that, i think, did contribute to something which is really been a seamless response and we are so used to hearing about turf battles and fights between the federal government and state governments and the like and we didn't see that here. that i think is a great story what has been improved the past 12 years. >> let's go to boston it with mike barnicle. he has a question. mike? >> first of all, michael leiter, that is one of the terrific under reported stories thus far. the trauma teams at these world class hospitals all of them, five or six of them, within four or five-minute ambulance ride of the blast site. that is a hugely underreported story and god bless them for everything they did. the question that i have for you is the progress of the investigation. i was speaking to several people yesterday involved in the investigation. maybe you can flush this out a bit. it seems that they are quite confident in the direction that they are headed and what they
3:20am
have received so far. if you want to liken it to a murder scene, is it not accurate to say that they have kind of a partial fingerprint here in the sense that they have a piece of a pressure cooker, they have remnants of a bag, they have the outlines, the ingredients of the bomb, so i would think that that would be a huge step down this progress road, would it not be? >> i think it is. the analogy to a fingerprint is good although it's a little imperfect and because a fingerprint is distinct to one individual. the challenge is that bomb style is not distinctive. it's been used by al qaeda, but it's also been advertised in domestic extremist web sites. what is important the components could potentially be traced back to reports of a circuit board being included. something like that might be relatively distinctive and that could be a key piece for the fbi to trace back. where that came from, how it was purchased and how ultimately it got in that bomb. you combine that with video and photos we are talking about and that is where you see this
3:21am
start. you hope to break wider open. >> guys, the patriots day on monday started with the red sox game at 11:00 in the morning. they came back and they won in walkoff fashion. obviously, things turned terrible from there. the red sox were back on the field in cleveland last night. a moment of silence at progressive field there before the indians hosted the red sox. it was the sox first game since the marathon attacks. the game mike napoli hit a three-run double that helped the red sox win the game and hanging in the dugout a jersey with the word "boston strong." and number 617 for the zip code where the bombing took place. >> there you go. >> area code. >> thank you. red sox second baseman dustin pedroia spoke about getting back on the field. >> i was there actually the day before and you can't even describe how you feel. i mean, it's just, you know, i mean, all of us on that bus ride, i mean, it was silent, you
3:22am
know? and it's still hard to, you know, put it together. >> meanwhile, the arch rival new york yankees paid tribute in new york to the city of boston a sign reading united we stand between the logo and the red sox and something you won't see very often. stadium flags were half-staff. the yankees played the old fenway favorite "sweet caroline" to honor boston after the third inning. ♪ sweet caroline good times never seem so good ♪ >> that was a pretty cool scene and one that played out at a couple of other stadiums last night, too. i think oakland did it along with some others. neil diamond himself tweeted out how honored he was that his song provided a little relief for some people yesterday. >> all right. we will be covering this throughout the morning. a lot more going on today as
3:23am
well. including big story in terms of the gun debate. we will get to that coming up on "morning joe." former new york city mayor rudy giuliani will be with us here on the set and senator joe manchin will join us to discuss the vote in the senate today on his backgrounds check bill. best selling author and journalist and war correspondent sebastian junger is up next. >> a very well known name emerging at the top of the polls for the new york city mayor's race. >> number two. >> number two. >> i wouldn't go to the bank with that just yet. >> we are just going to keep -- >> why not? >> why not? >> work with us, steve! >> who that shocking, shocking -- >> are you for anthony? >> we will tell you who that name is if steve rattner doesn't completely destroy our tease. first, let's go to weather. >> dylan dreyer has a check on the forecast. >> good morning. we are looking at pretty big storm system moving across the
3:24am
country. it's just a cold front but out ahead of it, we have severe storms. back behind it, we have more snow and it looks like we could end up with another 6 to 12 inches of snow as it does start to increase across parts of south dakota and nebraska. you see western and central nebraska, could be an area that gets 6 to 12 inches of snow. we are also looking at the potential for severe storms today especially down across oklahoma, southeastern kansas. tornadoes are certainly a possible later this afternoon and into this evening. elsewhere we will see a lot of large hail and damaging wind gusts. in the northeast we started off with a couple of lighter showers in and around the boston area and down across new york city too but those will move on out of here and we will see increasing sunshine in the northeast. we should top out around 70 in new york city today. 58 boston. on thursday, temperatures will continue to stay in the 50s and 60s. a little cloudy and a couple of late day showers possible in washington, d.c. on thursday.
3:25am
that is your latest forecast. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ clemmie's looking for a change from fast food breakfast. you know the average one can cost you over $4 a meal per person? a meal like this costs about $1.64 per serving. a family of four like yours could save over $500 bucks a year. wow. that's amazing! [ male announcer ] save on a kraft breakfast backed by the low price guarantee. walmart. bob will retire when he's 153, which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage. luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age.
3:26am
it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. for those nights when it's more than a bad dream, be ready. for the times you need to double-check the temperature on the thermometer, be ready. for high fever, nothing works faster or lasts longer.
3:27am
3:28am
papers. federal official retest ago letter sent to senator roger wicker to confirm it contains poison. officials discovered the ricin ladened note. all congressional mail is search since anthrax letters were sent to congress in 2007. senator claire mccaskill say they are investigating a person
3:29am
who regularly writes to lawmakers. a nationwide glitch. the airline was forced to outright cancel more than 400 flights when the reservation system was unaccessible creating problems with boarding passes and online check-ins and bag tracking. >> sad news from the dallas morning news. the great pat summerall, legendary broadcaster who shared a booth with john maden more than two decades died yesterday in texas. he was in broadcasting nearly 40 years. he had been undergoing treatment for a broken hip when he suddenly went into cardiac arrest. pat summerall was 82 years old. >> he is a legend. absolutely the best of the best. >> growing up, he and john madden were sundays. not just football, they were sundays. you could sit and listen to
3:30am
them. he also did 27 masters, 16 super bowls. pat summerall's resume is pretty much untouchable, mike barnicle. >> boy, willie. he was also maybe the only, at least in my memory, the only three-point who made such a successful transformation to the booth. my memory of him is kicking field goals in the snow for the new york giants wearing number 3 on his back and had he this velvety voice at the masters as you indicated and the super bowls and he and john madden together, they were iconic. >> no doubt about it. you look. the two greatest teams. you got to look, obviously, at pat summerall and john madden and then the guys that started "monday night football" back in the early 1970s. >> absolutely. he was great too. a conservation of words. something a lot of people in television could learn from. somebody pointed out yesterday he would say, montana, rice, touchdown.
3:31am
and then just let the moment go. no catch phrase or anything like that. he certainly will be missed. let's make a turn to politico now. the chief white house correspondent there is mike allen with a look at the playbook. let's talk business there in d.c. immigration and gun legislation supposed to be front and center this week in the wake of boston that, obviously, has not happened. but there will be some votes on guns today and immigration coming back as well. >> that's right. overnight, we saw the immigration bill and they threatened to make it 1,500 pages and it turned out to be 844 pages. very slim and breezy for washington. but the worry on capitol hill is that they are just running out of time. that with guns and with all of the other measures that are going to be up there there, that immigration, which was the president's top priority for this year is going keep getting pushed back. talking about the best case scenario is it getting passed by
3:32am
august? other people tell me it could be december. what we are hearing on capitol hill is that there are conservatives who are going to use the boston incident as a chance to say this isn't a time to have more people legalize in the country. laura ingram said it on her radio show yesterday and steve king of iowa said it yesterday and mark rubio of florida and schumer of new york pushing back against it. it shows the uphill climb immigration has. >> mike, how does that argument go exactly? someone perhaps did it something in boston, therefore, we should not have more immigrants in the country? >> the argument was made by laura ingram we don't want more people who are legalized with background checks. it doesn't change the fact they are here but what she said and the worry it complicates an already very difficult needle for senator marco rubio and
3:33am
conrvatives toll this to the right wing. >> we will talk coming up later about that gun vote today. i want to ask you about a poll joe referenced anthony weiner of new york in second place among democrats in this race for new york city mayor. he said in a big magazine piece over the weekend he was going to run. is this about name recognition or does he have a real chance to win this? >> it's probably most about recognize nix. weiner favor ability, 45. >> what do you think about weiner for mayor in new york city? >> i think it's probably too early. whatever you think about weiner and what he did or didn't do, i think to come out at this point after not that much time has passed and a field that is quite crowded already, he does have a lot of money left over from his
3:34am
last campaign so money wouldn't be a problem for him but i think the women's vote, mika, might be a little bit of a challenge. >> yeah, i think it might be. gosh. i have a counterintuitive answer to that as well, though. obviously, he has got this money to spend. i can't -- i have heard so many amazing things about his wife. >> she's great. >> she's amazing. >> why doesn't she run? >> the piece, in fact, made that sort of suggestion that maybe she should run. >> i don't -- i think there is a lot of people who have done a lot worse things who have been in much higher office who have gotten a massive second chance and a total pass on crimes. don't even ask me what i'm talking about. >> what are you talking about? >> you don't want to know. we will get in a huge fight. you don't want to deal with it. >> what? are you talking about me? >> no. >> what are you talking about? >> come on. >> it's a really weak field and a really big job.
3:35am
>> if that woman is that amazing and she is still with him and she gave him a second chance, i don't know. >> if you take anthony's strengths and compare it to the rest of the field do a balance sheet and look at the positive side he has a lot of strengths. >> like what? >> he is smart. more of a centrist than a lot of people in the democratic primary. he's a fighter and knows how to use the media. if you look at the traits he has and the traits of the last two guys who won this job he has more of the traits than people he is running against. >> this very long, very prosperous, very successful era of independents and republicans running new york? >> yes, we are. >> why? because it's turned this city around. >> it has. it would be great to have another one but we are done two two reasons. one, nobody like mike bloomberg with the money and with the
3:36am
credibility. with the gravitose to run the city like he has. the idea of somebody of rudy giuliani running again i think is very hard. i think this city is very solidly democratic and someone who comes up through that system is most likely the next mayor. >> i can't believe we are talking about gravitose. they didn't laugh off the idea people are willing to listen to him and willing to consider some of those strengths that mark was just talking about. >> mike allen, thank you very much. britain's iron lady -- i won't be looking at twitter today and suggest you don't either. britain's iron lady is laid to rest this morning. we will be joined by martin bashir coming up with regard to that. keep it here on "morning joe." ♪ i've got the power
3:37am
3:38am
3:39am
this time around it's gonna be different. this time around you're finally gonna lose the weight. like i did. on weight watchers. like she did. ♪ she got the power and she did. ♪ you've got the power this time around it's gonna be different. cause people lose 5x more weight following the weight watchers approach than trying on their own. and you can too. the new weight watchers 360 program. join for free and check out the new risk free guarantee today.
3:40am
♪ 40 past the hour. we are looking at live pictures from london. joining us from outside st. paul's cathedral is martin
3:41am
bashir. it looks like a beautiful service, martin. >> mika, it has been a very beautiful service. the bishop of london is just finishing his sermon and they are singing, i believe, the second to last hymn at the moment. the bishop talked about martha thatcher's upbringing and one of charles wesley him will be sung in a moment. we have seen representatives marsha blackburn and former secretarieses of state george schultz and james baker arrive and former vice president dick cheney is also in the congregation. when the coffin was brought in by the pallbearers each served
3:42am
in the campaign in 1982 and something that margaret thatcher initiated, launched and successfully completed. the service is ongoing and it's profound and moving. >> martin, i thought it fascinating. this morning, "the new york times" talking about the funeral and talked about thatcher's quote, radical free market policies. i would guess the measurement of a successful politician would be if what once was thought of radical in 1979 was adopted by your opposition in large part 20 years later when tony blair, of course, rounded off the harshest sharpest edges of thatcherism and adopted it. london is one of the thriving free market towns on the planet now and compare that to 1997 when it was far different. >> reporter: the statistics are
3:43am
interesting. when margaret thatcher came to power in 1979, 29 million working days had been lost in that year. by 1985, six years later, she had reduced that hearses by dismantling the unions to just 2 million working days a year. the interesting thing about her philosophy, although she proposed this idea of smaller government and she went about it with great zeal, in fact, the end of her period in office in 1990, the government had not shrunk but it actually had grown. and part of the reason for that was she felt that she wanted this notion of localized control but she never trusted it and so, for example, in the city of london that you speak of, she actually abolished the unit of authority that used to administer the whole region. some succeeded and others didn't
3:44am
and i think why such tension around this whole memorial because the perspective on the part of the british people is she did some necessary things in 1979 but also did some things that produced some terrible problems, like deregulating the city of london which, of course, many people believe was responsible for the catastrophes that occurred in 2007 and 2008. >> katty kay, there, obviously, is a big difference in how the british people look at margaret thatcher and how americans look at margaret thatcher. explain why. >> yeah. i was struck on the day that margaret thatcher died about the difference in the coverage here in the united states and back in britain. it was much more mixed in britain and much more talk, even david cameron, the prime minister, who is a fellow conservative mentioned the fact she was a controversial leader and you didn't hear that here.
3:45am
margaret thatcher stood up against the soviet union and she was a personal friend of ronald reagan's. americans didn't live through the miner strike, you didn't live through the rioting and upheaval that was almost detail through her prime ministership. i would pick up on what you said, joe. she marked a total sea change in britain's relationship with the market economy before she came into power and anything that was considered important in the post-war british era was controlled by the state. nobody would do that today. she had a very permanent difference in the way britain see the mark of the economy and we are now a country which is the product of margaret thatcher's economic vision. >> steve rattner, i have been
3:46am
amused by commentary coming out of great britain one after another after another kr criticizing margaret thatcher on how she took on the unions and there is that line it had to be done. you were a "the new york times" reporter there. you have said the margaret thatcher is why great britain is great britain today and not italy or spain or greece. >> look. i agree. to me, it seems very clear that when she did was to save great britain from economic irrelevance and i think what may explain a little bit of the difference between the british view and the american view is that what she did was radical by british standards because britain had moved so close to socialism by the time she arrived. but by our standards was not that far and certainly not ronald reagan and not that far from bill clinton in ways she
3:47am
didn't try to dismantle the national health service and didn't try to change the social welfare aspects of brittin'. he she brought the tax rate from 83 to 40% and dealt with the labor problem as katty said and she made enormous progress. and, by the way, everyone who blames her for the crisis in 2008, you know, in between margaret thatcher and 2008 there were three or four british prime ministers and then now david cameron. none of them reversed the system. as someone said a minute ago, everybody bought into the system and i think -- so i think her legacy is incredibly positive. the last point i would make she had the right idea about europe and why britain should fit into europe. >> she was right about britain. all these years later it cost her her job but she was right about europe. >> we will be following the funeral service under way right now throughout the morning. martin bashir, thank you. we will see you at 3:00 eastern
3:48am
time on msnbc. >> thank you, martin. appreciate it. coming up next, the gun background check bill is on shaky ground as it heads to a vote today in the senate. will it break down its chances of passing? next. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. at tyco integrated security, we consider ourselves business optimizers. how? by building custom security solutions that integrate video,
3:49am
access control, fire and intrusion protection. all backed up with world-class monitoring centers, thousands of qualified technicians, and a personal passion to help protect your business. when your business is optimized like that, there's no stopping you. we are tyco integrated security. and we are sharper. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers.
3:50am
but at xerox we've embraced a new role. working behind the scenes to provide companies with services... like helping hr departments manage benefits and pensions
3:51am
for over 11 million employees. reducing document costs by up to 30%... and processing $421 billion dollars in accounts payables each year. helping thousands of companies simplify how work gets done. how's that for an encore? with xerox, you're ready for real business. ♪ all right. we are going to give you an update on the background check bill. bipartisan bill takes place this afternoon and facing uphill climb as opposition continues to mount. senators pat toomey and joe manchin spent much of yesterday looking to rally the 60 votes needed to pass the measure. the bill suffered a setback when
3:52am
republican senator jeff flake of arizona announced his opposition in a facebook post. mark kelly, the husband of former congresswoman gabby gi giffords may challenge mark kelly. according to sam stein of the huffington there are 52 yes votes for the bill and 40 senators are opposed. all of whom are republicans. just three members of the gop senators toomey, mark kirk and susan collins are breaking with their party. two other republicans senators mccain and ayotte are reportedly on the fence. come on, guys. along with six democrats. >> john mccain sounds like he is moving in the right direction.
3:53am
i think another is kelly ayotte that needs to follow, mark halpern. six democrats on the fence as well. i think, again, mark, i think it's extraordinarily hard for a democrat with any ambitions inside the party to vote no on a basic background check that will stop terrorists from getting their hands on guns without a background check, that will stop past violent offenders and past violent rapists and past violent child molesters from getting a gun without a background check. somebody asked me questioned why i wasn't more incensed and waving my arms and yelling about this, because i know history is on my side. i know anybody that votes against checking violent criminals, being able to get weapons is going to lose in the end. i don't know how any democrat, any democratic senator votes no
3:54am
on this bill and remains in the democratic party. >> well, they are going to be a bunch of them that do and it looks like they are going to be short. what i haven't seen and i'd like to see is polling in arkansas. polling in montana, to see whether -- >> polling doesn't matter. no, it doesn't. you know why? because in florida, over 90% of people in my home state support background checks. they have got a senator who is actually saying that he would filibuster even talking about background checks. again, what seems so smart politically today because people are looking through the lens of 1994, it's going to look really dumb in 2016. >> it's going to happen. the democrats are going to vote against it for whatever set of reasons rightly or wrongly, they are going to vote against it. >> that is their political process. what seems safe and expedient today will cost them in the
3:55am
future. >> senator joemanchin will join us and pick up the conversation with him. and former mayor rudy giuliani will be on the set and standing bill in the green room, david axelrod and steve schmidt. more "morning joe" in a minute. . what's your secret? weight watchers online! ♪ never thought i'd dig weight watchers ♪ ♪ never thought i'd love their app ♪ ♪ but i tried their groovy online plan ♪ ♪ and now my arms don't jiggle when i clap ♪
3:56am
♪ and i go sleeveless ♪ no shame at bingo! ♪ sleeveless, when i'm hailing a cab ♪ ♪ sleeveless! ♪ i rock the scanner [ beep ] ♪ weight-watchers-online ain't no fad ♪ [ female announcer ] join for free. and check out our risk-free guarantee. from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet?
3:57am
omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could.
3:58am
up next, david axelrod and steve schmidt and harold ford jr. are all here.
3:59am
we will be right back with much more "morning joe." [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.
4:00am
it's just common sense. an intense burning sensation i woke up with this horrible rash on my right side. like somebody had set it on fire. and the doctor said, cindie, you have shingles.
4:01am
he said, you had chickenpox when you were a little girl... i said, yes, i did. i don't think anybody ever thinks they're going to get shingles. but it happened to me. for more of the inside story, visit shinglesinfo.com then you'll love lactose-free lactaid® it's 100% real milk that's easy to digest so you can fully enjoy the dairy you love. lactaid®. for 25 years, easy to digest. easy to love. for 25 years, are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news.
4:02am
is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. ♪ we will find out what happened. we will find out who did this and we will bring them to justice. we also know something about us as americans and we know something about bostonians, that
4:03am
in the most difficult times, it's when we stand closest together. >> welcome to "morning joe." mike barnicle is still with us in boston along with katty kay in washington and joining us here on set, former senior visor to president obama and msnbc contributor, david axelrod. former mccain senior campaign strategist steve schmidt and msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman, harold ford jr. good to have you all on board. we can also discuss big issue taking place on capitol hill today and that is the background checks bill. we will get to that in a moment. we begin, though, with what is on the front page of every paper that you can imagine. the bombings in boston. the three people killed in those two bombings had little in common except they each had come to watch of the end of the boston marathon.
4:04am
martin richard was just 8 and had gone to the marathon to watch the race with his parents and his brother and sister. according to "the boston globe" they took a break for ice cream before changing their seats to watch the end of the race at the finish line. today, his mother who is a librarian at his school and sister are still seriously injured and 8-year-old martin has become a symbol of science. the photo of him holding a sign reading "no more hurting people. peace." has been endlessly tweeted and shared across the globe. on "morning joe" yesterday, we showed you a chalk drawing he made over the weekend still outside his home. and the word peace near the front of his house. by nightfall, more than a thousand people had gathered at a nearby playground in dorchester forlight vig vigil. another victim, krystle campbell had moved in to live with her
4:05am
grandmother taking care of her after her grandmother underwent surgery. tragicall tragically, the parents were told that the friend who had gone to the race with crystle had died but then was then later told it was krystle. >> we have broken at the death of our daughter krystle marie. she was a wonderful person. everybody who knew her, loved her. she was always smiling. you couldn't ask for a better daughter. we can't believe this has happened. she has so happy in everything she did. this doesn't make any sense. >> the third victim was a boston university graduate student from china watching the end of the race with two friends not far from the school's campus. do we have mike barnicle with
4:06am
us? >> yes. >> mike, there is an effort to try and take care of these families. it's almost impossible to understand what has happened. >> mika, you know, this is who we are. not just in this city. but i think in this country. in chicago, where david is from, new york city, obviously, after september 11th. oklahoma city. and who we are as a nation, as a people, it's been articulated by the president and by the vice president. we just heard from him. who we are is carlos arredondo's father who we featured earlier in the hour. carlos was a marine veteran -- was killed in iraq and his dad was at the race and rushed to assist a young man who ended up losing both legs. that's who we are. we are the nurses who are running in the marathon who ran immediately to give blood at local area hopts. we are the people who jumped to help strangers in the wake of
4:07am
the blast that occurred on boylston street. that is who we are. the medical and doctors and emergency personnel who responded immediately and saved untold numbers of lives as well as limbs in these world class hospitals around the bomb blast area. that's who we are. we are the people who are opening our homes to complete strangers who are here for the marathon. that's who we are. we are not the person or persons who has put these devices on the sidewalk that maimed and killed human beings. that's not who we are. >> we have a shot. this is from "sports illustrated," david axelrod. a shot of right after the explosion, the chaos. for anybody who has spent any time of boston, it's surreal that you look at the sidewalk and that this was -- the scene here a couple of days ago. david, you've been inside the
4:08am
white house. anybody that's been inside the white house since september 11th has felt a heavy burden on their shoulders. the last president felt it. this president feels it too. this is, i guess what you guys work to stop every day and fear is going to happen one day? >> yeah. well, you know, the night before the president took office, we were dealing with a potential threat. if this has been written, it's not news, on washington on inauguration day and you would think we would be in a celebratory mood but we weren't. it was sort of the welcome to the nba moment that this is the reality of the presidency that you live with every moment. i think what is remarkable is the degree to which we have not able to prevent these kind of incidents, but they have not
4:09am
preventable all the time. and when they happen, it's shocking and you see images. by the way, as shocking as that image is, i think the most searing is that picture of that little boy, a picture of innocen innocence, that mom. >> picture of goodness. >> it's almost impossible to watch that without tearing up. >> mike barnicle has talked about how strong bostonians are and how good people are in their hearts. and how that really captures more of who was there at the time of this. i was watching the coverage yesterday. the governor told an incredible story about a woman who has seriously injured with shrapnel in her leg and became hysterical and trying to get away. a man who clearly had served in afghanistan was trying to calm her down. and got her finally to calm down by showing her his shrapnel wound and saying, look here? you're going to be okay. she's in the hospital and the
4:10am
governor put out a plea. her name is victoria. all she know about him is his name is tyler and she want to thank him. if you can imagine that scene and the thought in his mind. the only way to help her understand what has happened to her is to show his wounds from war. you know, it's on so many levels gut wrenching. mike barnicle? mika, i'm told that they may have found tyler, i think his name is. they are not quite sure but they think they may have located him. but in this vein, i received a call yesterday afternoon in the who we are vein. i received a call yesterday afternoon from former senator bob kerry who lost a limb in vietnam and he tried to find out who he could call to talk to people who lost limbs in this blast to tell them that life go does on. you have lost your limb but you haven't lost your life or your spirit.
4:11am
this again, is who we are. >> it is. nbc news has obtained photos of what remains of a pressure cooker which was used as the delivery device for the explosives. law enforcement official tell nbc news the bombs were made to work like homemade ieds. they were in a black powder. experts say the device was not capable of creating a massive blast wave. instead its main purpose was to maim and injure. let's bring in for the latest on the investigation nbc news national security analyst and former director of national counterterrorism center, michael leiter. michael, what can you tell us about what we know? you brought up a very good point last hour about the impatience we are all feeling, given what has happened. is it fair to say, though, that there is still a good deal of mystery surrounding the culprits here? >> there is mystery. what we have learned over the
4:12am
past 24 hours is very, very significant. the type of bomb that this was, to some extent, how it was constructed, and very, very importantly some sense of how it was delivered in the black backpacks or duffel bags. that is critical because now the fbi and boston officials can look back at videos and photographs and we hope and i expect they will be able to actually identify when those were delivered and who delivered them. so those are big pieces. it's so hard not to be impatient, especially when you see those pictures and hear these stories, but 39 hours in, i actually think this is progressi incredibly well. >> tell me why. >> you think to the 12 hours right after the event. it's not even clear at that point how many bombs there were, how many packages there were. and now we know exactly where those devices were. we have a good sense of what it looked like. we can go back. the fbi can go back and trace components found in those bombs and collecting the video and
4:13am
sifting through that. those are all the early pieces. and i guarantee you having worked with david and others in the white house, the president is impatient and bob mueller at the fbi is impatient. they don't want to press too hard and go down a path that is a rabbit hole and not the right set of perpetrators. >> michael leiter, thank you very much. we will be following this. other news. bipartisan bill to expand the current background check takes place this afternoon. pat toomey and joe manchin looking to rally the 60 votes needed to pass the measure but the bill suffered a setback when republican senator jeff flake of arizona and alaska senator murkowski said they would not support the bill. according to the huffington post 52 yes votes and 40 senators are opposed all of whom are
4:14am
republicans. three members of the gop senators toomey and kirk and collins are breaking with their party. two other republicans senators mccain and ayotte are reportedly on the fence along with six democrats. >> steve schmidt, we, obviously, are focusing on the republican party. marco rubio and 90% of the state believe criminals should have a background check before buying a bush master on the internet you have to scratch your head and democrats as well. i should direct this to david and harold next. i don't know how any democrat, any democrat in this national democratic party votes against background checks to make sure that violent rapists or violent child molesters or terrorists don't have to go through a background check before buying a
4:15am
gun. >> it's incredible to watch. >> a butch mash master. how can any democrat do that? i've expressed my disgust at that. let's talk about the democrats. if you're a democrat in this national democratic party, how do you vote against stopping violent past offenders from being able to buy guns? >> the motive is the same with the republican office holders. they are are more afraid of the interest group, the national rifle association than they are 90% of the constituents because they believe the national rifle association will remember. they believe as a matter of fierce conviction they could lose their senate and house seat and they don't want to test the proposition. that is part of the problem in washington. it is what has depleted the middle ground of reasonness on these issues.
4:16am
>> tell me the add for mark pryor running in arkansas if he wants to have violent past offenders or terrorists have background checks? >> it's not a fair ad. what the ad will say is that he wants to seize your guns. he is against the second amendment. the ads will be distortive of his actual record and his position. >> even nra -- all of the nra members know, all i know support it. >> support it. >> this is one thing, folks, if actually mass nra members were actually against background checks. i'm not talking to you as a guy that works in manhattan. i'm talking to you a guy that was born in georgia and lived in ruled mississippi and lived in northwest florida and lived in rule alabama for 45 of my 50 years, i grew up in southern baptist churches. i sat in pews every sunday with hunters for 45 years.
4:17am
i haven't talked to one that doesn't agree with me that we want to make sure that past violent offenders have to at least have background check before they can buy a weapon that they can take to schools, malls, churches, because that is happening too. and kill people. seriously. i haven't met an nra member that i grew up with over 45 years. this is among gun owners, 85% of gun owners support background checks against criminals, against terrorists! >> you're right. >> it's the "wizard of oz." nobody would lose their seats for voting what is a common sense measure. >> not one person. >> nobody. >> exactly right. nobody. but we have a politics of fearfulness of our elected leaders who will not stand up. this isn't the only interest group that holds such power but the only interest group that has such power over life and death.
4:18am
>> if you could put the names and the faces of the democrats and the republicans in question up. seriously. are they afraid at this point? what are they afraid of? wizard of oz? >> harold, you ran statewide in tennessee. would you have a problem running in tennessee saying you want to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists? since al qaeda on the fbi most wanted list are out there saying, go buy guns in america and kill american citizens are act of terror. what are you waiting for, he says, because they don't have a good background check system. >> that might be one of my response if i had one of those ads running against me. i think steve has captured what the members of congress and senators are thinking who have expressed a lack of support for the bill. joe, you recall my record when i ran for the senate in tennessee was resemble what was ran against me.
4:19am
to protect yourself and protect your home. i hope -- i hope they show this -- >> as a southerner, you know what? i don't want terrorists advertising that they can come to meridian, mississippi, or ft. walton beach, florida and get a gun on the internet and come kill our people. >> you showed the video of an american who has converted to one of the terrorist organizations overseas and urging americans to take advantage of the lack of guns law in this country. >> he's on the fbi most wanted list. >> i'd ran that kind of ad against somebody -- >> i can't speak to somebody else but a republican primary in northwest florida if somebody used it against me that i was trying to keep the guns out of the hands of terrorists and rapists i would reduce their political bones to dust. in fact, that would be the only issue i would talk about until
4:20am
they went off whimpering and begging me to stop. i would make them back down. it is a politics of committee. this is so easy, david axelrod. this is the sort of things people have always said, you're so courageous. i never stop to tell them it's a 90% proposition. this is also about winning. >> apparently, we have to get to 95 before people feel comfortable, joe. look. the bottom line is the fundamental instincts of politicians of survival in a lot of these states and rural districts, they believe that there is greater risk in defining the nra than there is in d as steve said the will of the majority because they don't think it's a voting issue for those 90%. until people start losing their seats because they voted against common sense gun safety laws, they will continue to vote against -- they don't think there is a penalty to be paid
4:21am
for this. you know, we are talking about terrorists and so on. i watched that mom, that heart broken mom. but i see those scenes on television all the time in chicago. >> every night in chicago. >> all the time. and most of the time, those guns are illegally purchased from straw buyers in tandem with trafficking laws would make a big difference and save mothers. >> what do you say to these democratic senators who, in part, hold the bill's fate in their hands? i want to go to david really quickly and then to mike. what do you say to these democratic senators who right now are cowhko cowarding in the offices. they are getting all of these phone calls from people, right? they are getting calls from the 7%. and they are looking at the phone calls and the e-mails. my god. the 7% is after me. what do you say to them, these democrats that are afraid to go with what is not only right and
4:22am
what is safe and will keep americans safe and i'm talking only about background checks against criminals. what do you say to these democrats? >> i would say show some courage. i would say is it worth being there for six, 12, 18, 30 years by cowarding and shirking their responsibilities and is it worth holding those jobs simply to sit there and be called a united states senator? >> but, mike barnicle, here is the rub. as shakespeare would say, here is the rub. if they vote against common sense criminal background checks they will not be there for 18 years. the history is not on wayne lapierre's side. the history is on the 94% side. the 90% side, the 87% side. you pick the poll.
4:23am
not only are they doing the wrong thing, they are doing the wrong thing politically if they don't show courage today and support the background check to keep the guns out of the hands of rapists and terrorists and violent criminal offenders. >> i have a question we might want to ask. i don't know if they dropped the united states in front of their title senator voting against background checks. the question is this. less than 48 hours ago, four blocks from where i sit right now, two devices were exploded. it's terrorism. the intent of terrorism is to make people fearful, to make americans fearful, to gather, to assembly, to go to ballgames and to stay home and coward in their homes. how is it, senator, that americans do not do this, that
4:24am
bostonians, new yorkers, we do not do this? we get up, we walk ahead, on ward through the day. how is it that we are less afraid of terrorism on our streets than you are of the nra? >> it's a question we can ask each and every one of those who are considering it. i'm praying that the two republicans on the fence maybe show some leadership here. >> i think they will. i think john mccain will and -- >> john mccain has signaled he would. >> he has the courage. >> we need democrats as well. i think part of what has happened here, steve, the immigration bill is now out there. i think these republicans think they get one hall pass and where they will use it. >> is that what this is about? >> i think that is part what have is going on here. i don't want to give my own party a pass on this. you know, i think this is the
4:25am
purest exhibition of the power of special interest in politics when you have 90% issue on the issue of life and death and you cannot muster a vote. >> i can't believe it. >> again, we draw no contexts with anything. we draw no connections with anything. as americans are more focused on terror than ever before, steve schmidt, there is a terrorist out there on the fbi's most wanted list telling people how to kill more americans in the future because we don't have background checks. >> based on our laws. >> all right. we are going to show that tape later. still ahead on "morning joe," senator joe manchin will be here and also massachusetts congressman ed markie and sebastian junger. coming up, former new york city mayor rudy giuliani joins us on set. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.
4:26am
4:27am
4:28am
4:29am
♪ rhode isla 28 past the hour. with us now -- is former new york city mayor rudy giuliani. stop it. you guys don't want to get me started on this. >> we don't. let's go to pete williams who is live in washington. pete, what are you hearing about the investigation to the bombings in boston? >> right. it's all about putting pieces of puzzles together. first of all, the devices themselves are here in the suburban washington in the fbi's crime lab where they will try to reinstruct them. they believe they were carried to the scene in black nylon duffel bags and say that because of the weight that each device probably weighed 20 pounds filled with gun powder and shrapnel and in pressure cookers. you can see the brand name of the pressure cookers in a couple of the pictures that we have obtained. the second part of it is the
4:30am
pictures themselves that they are asking people to send in and they are getting a huge amount, so far, three terra bytes of data that is thousands of hours of video and still pictures. they want more. this is from our affiliate in boston. it shows in the first picture what appears to be a trash bag next to the green thing is a trash container and looking at whether the bombs might have been place inside trash bags to look less conspicuous and a possibility and something they are considering. >> pete, thank you. mayor giuliani, let's get your reaction, first of all, to boston. >> the reaction is total horror at what happened and disappointment. i can't say unexpected. i don't mean boston. i don't exactly then. you asked me this question the evening of september 11th i would have told you we will have a dozen of these. >> most americans thought after
4:31am
9/11. i remember in a poll 60% of americans said we will get attacked like this again in the next two years. >> that was not a poll but i was being briefed and told by the fbi and the new york city police department and by the people in washington. get ready, a lot of suicide attacks and a lot of suicide bombings. we haven't had them for a whole host of reasons. we could debate forever including, i think, tremendously improved intelligence gathering. >> by the way, can we stop right here? because we never do this and any time -- i know all of you guys have talked to people in intelligence. and they love their jobs. they are patriots. but there is always sort of a shrug of the shoulders. they always say, you know what? nobody ever stops and thanks us for the attacks. we stop. how amazing is it over the past 12 years, this was the first successful attack in america since 9/11. >> no one could predict that on september 12th, 2001, that would this would be the first attack. having said that that is no
4:32am
solace to anybody that who lost an arm or leg or child. my goodness. it shouldn't happen. we should be able to prevent it. i think in impatience with the investigation is a little misplaced. i was in london the day of the bombing in 2005. half a block away from the liverpool station. tony blair asked me to join them. i saw a lot of what they did. it took a while to catch those people and they have maybe three times the surveillance cameras that we have in most american cities. they were lucky enough, to come up with a great picture of one of the guys who did it, so right at the very beginning, they focused in on who it was but it took weeks. >> there's so many pictures. it's not that they don't have enough. can you imagine how many cameras were rolling at the finish line? >> the idea of impatience is totally misplaced. people are working 24 hours a day and good chance they will catch these people. >> we forget how long it took
4:33am
for london. each with the closed circuit cameras we were talking about last hour to actually piece together what they needed to arrest the perpetrators. >> yeah. we were being reminded earlier in the show, joe, not to be impatient and these things can take a long time. i mean, imagine the amount of data they have out of boston now that has to be processed. they have got to go through it and looking for a face that looks out of place and somebody carrying something heavy that looks out of place. it might be a millisecond of all they see on video they have to go through. these investigations take time. the atlanta bombing, the olympic bombing, took two years before a suspect was named. this will probably come through much quicker. i was going to ask the mayor what do we do about soft targets? this weekend there will be 30 marathons taking place around the world. there will be one in london with 500,000 spectators and madrid and hamburg and austria. what do we do to protect the soft targets particularly if it's an individual where you
4:34am
don't necessarily get the intelligence chatter beforehand. >> first of all, you go through with them and you never stop. whoever is behind this, makes their point. number two, you improve the security as best you can. and be honest with people. we can never offer perfect security to anyone. otherwise you wouldn't be able to go about your life. we are not going to stop having marathons and not stop having baseball games and not stop going forward because every once in a while, a horrible thing like this happens. and this is also not the time to say this so i'll try to say it very carefully so i don't offend anybody. this is not the bigger source of danger to americans. there are ten others things that are much more dangerous to you as americans that could take your life as a possible terrorist act and probably understating it at ten. it's not the right time to say it because it's terrible for the people who go through it. it's a horrible experience. and no one wants to minimize how bad it is. but if we are talking about
4:35am
giving people advice about risk, if you're doing risk analysis, this is way down the list. >> let's talk about one of those things, especially if you live in cities like chicago. >> or manhattan, right here. >> let's talk about guns. >> let's go there. >> you are in law enforcement and let me ask you. we were just talking about background checks last block. do you support -- >> i support background checks. i support universal background checks. i have no fear as some people do the government is going to use that to come in and get me. >> why do you support it? >> why? >> why? >> because i want a database in which i can keep guns out of the hands of drug dealers and keep them out of the hands of criminals. i make an analogy to driving an automobile. an automobile is a very dangerous strum. they probably kill more people than guns. however we don't stop people from having automobiles.
4:36am
they have to get a license and pass a written test, they have got to pass a physical test. same thing with guns. you want to have a gun? great. we should have a licensing system. i'd have more people have guns but got to have a license. you got to take a test. you got to take a written test and you got to show you know how to use a gun. not take it into your house like you're not taking a car into your garage if you don't know how to drive. >> i'm just confused then. because we were just putting up the pictures of a couple of republicans and handful of democrats who are either on the fence or planning to vote no on background checks. what? what do you say to this? >> i think, as i said, i don't attribute motivations like not courageous and not this and not that. people make their own political choices. >> is there any logic on the other side? >> yes there. this legislation is irrelevant to sandy hook. the reason we reduce crime in new york, the reason we took guns out of the new york is
4:37am
not -- is not the fact that we had gun control. cities that have gun control just like new york have three and a half times the murders in new york. we took them out of the hands of bad guys. all of this stuff about new york city being attacked for search and seizure that maybe bloomberg has to face and will have to face. that has more to do with why crime is down in new york than any gun control. i hate to compare new york and chicago but new york and chicago, very similar cities. chicago has three and a half times the murder rate per capita of new york. same gun control laws. different. policy is changing. >> half of the guns used in crime in chicago flow in from indiana, for example. >> same thing in new york from north carolina and from virginia and from florida. i'd say three-quarters of the guns i seized as a prosecutor and mayor came from outside new york city. i seized them and took them out of the hands of the bad guys. that's what you have to do. you have to have a aggressive -- >> tough trafficking laws is
4:38am
important? >> all of these things is important. the president might have done something like bill clinton did with the comprehensive crime control bill. put together this massive piece of legislation. stuff that conservatives and liberals hated and vice versa. i supported it because it provided a hundred thousand cops, it provided the death penalty restored. liberals supported it because it supplied a lot of money for rehabilitation programs, for improving jails, for cutting down on lengths of stay in jail at times with different kinds of programs. and it got passed. there had to be something in here that republicans who are in place they might get defeated go back and say i voted that but now psychiatrists have to turn in people who had mentally ill like cuomo did in new york. that will be challenged in court and require a psychiatrist to make an evaluation and maybe turn people in. >> that makes the background checks work. >> it makes that database a real database instead of a database with half the information that you need. >> that's fair.
4:39am
mayor rudy giuliani, great to have you once again. always interesting. >> thank you so much for being here. >> may i say one thing? >> yeah. >> watch the firefighters and police officers going over the wall, going over the fence running to the fire. didn't they look just like the nypd? amazing. they are all the same. they are all the same. these are the most courageous people that we have. here is an explosion. everybody reasons the other way as we all would. these guys, right over the fence and not even thinking and over the fence. i told mayor menino those are the things to rebuild boston's pride. they are brave people. >> they are. coming up, senator joe manchin joins us to discuss the fait of his background checks bill. don't go away. we will be right back. ♪ come on up to the horizon
4:40am
humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? we believe it can be the most valuable real estate on earth. ♪ that's why we designed our newest subaru from the back seat forward. introducing the all-new, completely restyled subaru forester. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. it's delicious.
4:41am
so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. for those nights when it's more than a bad dream, be ready. for the times you need to double-check the temperature on the thermometer, be ready. for high fever, nothing works faster or lasts longer. be ready with children's motrin.
4:42am
4:43am
♪ still ahead, we are going to go back to boston. more with mike barnicle and massachusetts congressman ed markey. up next 90% of americans support a bill for background checks so why is only 50% of the senate planning to vote for it? we are going to talk to one of the sponsors of the legislation, senator joe manchin, next on "morning joe." ♪ everyone is creeping up to the money god ♪
4:44am
as your life changes, fidelity is there for your personal economy, helping you readjust along the way, refocus as careers change and kids head off to college, and revisit your investments as retirement gets closer. wherever you are today, fidelity's guidance can help you fine-tune your personal economy.
4:45am
start today with a free one-on-one review of your retirement plan. bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day.
4:46am
what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button?
4:47am
♪ in the west, you've got a lot at your disposal. let's take america as an example. america is absolutely a wash with easily obtainable firearms. you go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check and, most likely, without having to show an identification card so what are you waiting for? >> if you vote now you can continue to work with that guy. really? really? seriously? >> let's just do a side-by-side and do one of those things. we can actually -- we are helping this guy out. we are helping this guy out if
4:48am
we don't reform this system that rudy giuliani said was an absolute joke that allows criminals and terrorists to keep getting guns. gang members -- i'm sorry, go ahead, harold. >> you take a terrorists word and run that ad side-by-side with every ad that wants to be run and you say i stood up and i showed courage and voted this way. i don't mean to judge administrative i my friends in the senate but i have to say this is one of those moments not only what happened in newtown but what commonwealth of massachusetts is confronting if you can't fight it, you can't be in this business. >> you shouldn't be in office. >> from my part of the country, somehow support allowing guns to flow freely all over the country, i don't think people in northwest florida or people in arkansas or people in west virginia want that guy and terrorists across the globe to be able to get guns easily in america to kill americans. >> and to laugh at our stupid
4:49am
system. >> it's unbelievable. >> joining us now from capitol hill, democratic senator from west virginia, senator joe manchin. we are crossing our fingers. do you think you have the votes? doesn't look like it. >> we hope so. but here is where we are today, mika, and joe and harold and all of you there. we have over 90% of the senate democrats that will vote affirmative. if we just had 20% of our republican colleagues, that's not a heavy ask, it's not a heavy lift. only 20%. that is nine members. nine members. this thing would be home. and we will see. i'm hoping. you all have done everything you can. i appreciate it very much. i can't understand it, i really can't. let me give you the latest poll in west virginia and my lovely said which you know i love so much. in west virginia, gun show, background and criminal checks for gun shows, 83% of west virginiians support it and one
4:50am
of the toughest gun cultures in the country. criminal and mental background checks across the board 86% but have you on sell it. i have to go out and explain. >> wait a minute. 86% of people in your home state of west virginia? >> in west virginia. >> one of the -- of west virginf the most pro gun culture states in america, 86% support criminal background checks. >> most of them are law-abiding gun owners. >> that's what i don't get. the nra is claiming that their numbership opposes this. >> they are wrong. >> we're talked about this since the day after newtown. my buddies that i grew up with are all hunters and say i play by the rules, everybody else should have to play by the rules. the gun shop owners say i play by the rules, why doesn't everybody else have to play by the rules?
4:51am
>> why would the citizens committee for the right to keep and bear arms, 650,000 strong, that's the main purpose to protect the second amendment. why would they support this bill so strongly? they read the bill. when you look at what we are doing, we are taking current language. by law for the last ten or more years, you are required to have a back ground check. at a gun show, if there is a licensed dealer selling a gun, you have to do a background check, but you can go two tables over and buy all you want with nothing. if you read the new york times article, if you are seeking a gun or selling one, this is a land of few rules. what's going on in the land of internet sales. all we are saying today, if you buy a gun from west virginia to
4:52am
florida and you basically accepted it from florida, you have to send it to a licensed dealer. all have to go through a background check. this is not universal. it does not infringe on anybody's rights or any individual's rights. >> let me congratulate you on behalf of the heartbroken parents around the country. let me congratulate you on the leadership you have shown. what you have done. the president wrote on the times about his own polling. one of the things that people support background checks and most assume it's already the law. they think it's so common sense that it's already the law. do people think that the law is already in place.
4:53am
>> what the gun owners and the state such as west virginia say, the reason you want that information is you can register at don't take my guns away. if you just read the bill you think i don't understand where you are coming from? the law said you can't do it today. the bill said any person tries to collect records for the purpose of registration it will be i a felony with 15 years of imprisonment. that's why you have the right to keep and bear arms and they are support it. we are not only protecting, but expanding rights. if you are a criminal or if you have been adjudicated through a court, you are probably not going to like a bill. hopefully we will have more law-abiding citizens than criminals or people who have
4:54am
mental incapacity through the courts. >> thank you for what you are doing. you are showing great courage. you think about republicans and how they react to the second point. how this can be characterized by the government. that was outstanding. how does that play with the 7, 8, 9 republicans that 20% that you may need to get this thing passed? >> the senator, you are likely to lose your rating over this legislation. do you fear for your career? what do you say for republicans in pro gun states about the power of the nra and the political consequences? you are taking it head on fearlessly. >> people that know me know me well. i have been secretary of state and been around for a long time. i never got into this as a career. i got into it to fix things and make it better and every time i got a position i tried to do
4:55am
that. i was able to bring credibility because i love money and i love shooting and love going out in the woods and all the things that i do with my family and i love all of that. i thought i could bring credibility to it. coming from pennsylvania, we worked with everyone. we worked and brought everybody. all the organizations on board. you know what, i'm a lifetime member of the nra. i used to get the magazines and their bulletins and i said my goodness, i'm glad they are fighting that. i'm against that too. now when they are so disingenuous and tell members that our legislation that they would criminalize the firearms by honest citizens. this bill does not even touch. >> that's a lie.
4:56am
>> it is a lie. >> if you lose credibility, if you don't have credibility, you have nothing. if someone made a mistake in making that quote, i would hope they correct that. then they lost everything in washington. >> i hope that senators do the right thing today. thank you. good luck. >> we are working hard and thank you all for helping. >> keep working. it's only just begun. >> we'll be right back.
4:57am
woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him when he was there 118 days. everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment. i wouldn't trade him for the world. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. if you're caring for a child with special needs, our innovative special care program offers strategies that can help.
4:58am
omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. people lose 5x more weight following the weight watchers approach than trying on their own. you can too. the new weight watchers 360 program. join for free and check out the new risk free guarantee today.
4:59am
5:00am
. >> we have the latest on the bombs that killed three people at monday's boston marathon and talking about leads in the case. sebastian junger will be joining the discussion straight ahead. revolutionizing an industry can be a tough act to follow, but at xerox we've embraced a new role. working behind the scenes to provide companies with services... like helping hr departments manage benefits and pensions for over 11 million employees. reducing document costs by up to 30%... and processing $421 billion dollars in accounts payables each year. helping thousands of companies simplify how work gets done. how's that for an encore? with xerox, you're ready for real business. [ jen garner ] what skincare brand is so effective...
5:01am
so trusted... so clinically proven dermatologists recommend it twice as much as any other brand? neutrogena®. recommended by dermatologists 2 times more than any other brand. now that's beautiful. neutrogena®. ♪ [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need
5:02am
without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.
5:03am
5:04am
. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 on the west coast. back with us, we have mark halpern and in boston and washington. we will start with the latest on the investigation. new details surrounding the explosive used and the lingering questions. 2 built them and why? we obtained these photos of what remains of a picker used as a delivery device for the explosives. the bombs were built to act like homemade ieds. this is what remains of the black duffle bag used to conceal the device. sources tell us the bombs appear to include a battery pack and the boston globe reports said there was a circuit board at the scene. they were packed with shrapnel to maximize damage and a black powder known as a low explosive.
5:05am
it was not capable of creating a massive blast. the main purpose was to maim and injur. moments before and moments after the detonation, the fbi is looking at these photos and others for clues as to who placed the bombs and when. there is press depth for dieses like these. the fbi sent out a memo on the use of homemade pressure cooker bombs. al qaeda's online magazine gave instructions for making them just last month and in the 2010 attempted attack on times square, one device found included a pressure cooker and 120 firecrackers. the search of an apartment belonging to a foreign student has so far turned up nothing and he is not considered a suspect at this point. yesterday president obama was
5:06am
direct in his characterization of the bombings. >> this was a heinous and cowardly act and given what we now know about what took place, the fbi is investigating as an act of terrorism. any time bombs are used to target civilians, it is an act of terror. we know this. the american people refuse to be terrorized because who the world saw yesterday, the aftermath of the explosions were stories of heroism and kindness and generosity and love. exhausted runner who is kept running to the nearest hospital to give blood and those who stayed to tend to the wounded and some tearing off their clothes to make tournequets and the men and women who are still treating the wounded. if you want to know who we are and what america is, we respond
5:07am
to evil. that's it. selflessly, compassionately, unafraid. >> the death toll stands at three with more than 170 people injured. 71 of them still hospitalized with injuries that are -- looking at pictures from the scene. >> "sports illustrated" put out the edition on boston and there was a shot where the explosion took place. there so many other shots in hereof the impact. the before and after of somebody getting up and placing the bag right in front. again the "new york times" is saying today and as you said, the bombs were not intended to kill a lot of people as much as they were intended to maim and to cause injury and do exactly
5:08am
what they did. >> the cover of "time" magazine. it's a special edition they put out in light of this tragedy. that says it all. >> the front page. we got the first photo where we are learning more about the victims yesterday. martin richard, the 8-year-old. if you go down here, he was holding a sign in his class last year, no more hurting people. peace. it was last year in may for an event the school was doing. this is krystle campbell who was a graduate student from china. if you read it, martin richard died at 8 and there was a 10-year-old in critical condition and a 9-year-old who lost a leg. three people died and there were a lot of people whose lives have been altered forever.
5:09am
>> go to mike barnacle and before we do more on the investigation, get a sense of where boston is right now. you have been talking to people literal low since this tragedy struck. i know that there was a news conference with the mayor and a lot of boston's best coming together to put together funds for the families of the injured and the killed. the city is coming together as best it can. >> it is. last evening there was a neighborhood memorial service for martin richard and his family. specifically for young martin. 8 years old killed in the blast. several hundred people showed up a few blocks from their home. there was an impromptu service in the boston common about a block from where we were yesterday and where i am today.
5:10am
a beautiful sunset service. the national anthem was play and god bless america. no speeches or politicians. yesterday afternoon, right here at this site where you were, about 1:30 or 2:00 in the afternoon, the clouds and the pedestrian traffic was fairly thick as the city comes back to life. a young man came beyond the fence line over the public guard where the swan boats are and walked towards this corner and took a clarinet out of a case that he was carrying and played a pitch perfect rendition of the star spangled banner. when he finished, the crowd that was stopped for traffic to cross the street burst into applause. it was a pretty moving moment in the middle of the day.
5:11am
to answer your question, this city took a punch as a lot of people asked, the city dropped to its knees. it is walking and we are moving on. >> talk about the city coming back to life. we had baseball and you got a crime scene in the center of the commercial activity and offices. what is the city doing now that is not back to normal. what is back to normal? >> most of the city is slowly coming back to normal. they reopened the streets and including a portion of boylston street where the blast occurred at the finish line. it appears that boylston might be open down to where i'm sitting now by the end of the day, but they still have forensic teams gathering material at the site. the picture on the front of the
5:12am
globe that was displayed showed a couple of people up on top of the low roof line above the sidewalk restaurants and cafes because there is debris from the bombs that they are gathering. the other thing has nothing to do with the streets being blocked as much as it has to do with -- i talked to one of the forensic people and they were talking about psychological profiles. this would be an interesting psychological profile. as has been pointed out numerous times, these low level blasts left apparently in two satchels at sidewalk level, just dropped there and camouflaged perhaps in a bag, pressure cooker bombs. at two sites. they were dropped there to do maximum damage to human beings, but also maximum explosion. huh many, many fixed camera
5:13am
sites. if the bombs were set down near boston college or heart break hill, there would not be the live tv coverage that was accorded it here. interesting psychological profile. >> the great frustration for not only law enforcement, but all americans that keep tuning in, wanting some sort of lead. there doesn't appear to be any good leads right now. the cameras are fixed where someone dropped the bag and of course law enforcement officers are desperately trying to find out who dropped the bag and how they found them. they brought up the london example of the terror bombing in london because they had the cameras on the streets. they literally followed the terrorists.
5:14am
a great example of london, a terrorist can't do anything through most of the main streets of london without the law enforcement officers knowing within 30 minutes to an hour who did it and able to track them. here we seem to be still stumbling around in the dark. >> i'm speaking to tim yesterday from the 9/11 commission and he was talking about the self targets and the difference in the state and it is uk. we can't move in that city without being filmed at that point. there so many it gives the opportunity to see people moving from the frame of one camera. it does allow you to follow people's movements. new york city stepped up a lot. there many more in new york than boston. the issue of how we in a
5:15am
democratic society where people do have freedoms and courtesy rights are going to in the future protect the targets that people are particularly concerned about in the life of boston. it is going to be a struggle for law enforcement and us as a country. how much surveillance are people prepared to have. there will be a lot more and other cities are following what new yorkers don't have having cameras stepped up throughout the city. >> the three people killed in the blast had little in common except they each had come to watch the end of the marathon. martin richard who we were discussing is just 8 years old and had just gone to the race to watch the marathon with his parents and his 11-year-old brother and 5-year-old sister. according to the boston globe, they took a break for ice cream before changing seats to watch the end of the race at the finish line. today his mother who is a
5:16am
librarian at a school and his sister are still seriously injured and 8-year-old martin has been a symbol of innocence. as we showed, the photo of him holding the sign no more killing people, peace. that has been tweeted across the globe. we showed you the images, a chalk drawing he made over the weekend still outside his home and the word peace near the front of his house. by nightfall they gathered at a nearby playground for a candlelight vigil. another victim, krystle campbell had moved in with her grandmother lillian for two years to take care of her while she underwent surgery. krystle's parents were first told that her friend who she had gone to the race with had died, only to be later told it was actually krystle who was dead.
5:17am
>> we are heartbroken. krystle marie was a wonderful person. and everybody that knew her loved her. she had a heart of gold. she was always smiling. i can't believe this happened. she was such a happy person in everything she did. this doesn't make any sense. >> the third victim was a boston university grad student from china watching the end of the race with two friends not far from the school's campus. why don't we bring in nbc news analyst and former director of the counter terrorism center. in light of what we just talked about, the victims, the reasons they were there and the families
5:18am
and the pain so many people are going through, it's frustrating to hear that there is so little known about who did this and why and accountability. >> it's obviously so tragic, mika. i will disagree a little bit about progress. i know people are impatient. it's impossible to not want to know why and do this, we are not even 39 hours into the investigation and in fact a lot of progress was made yesterday. finding some detail and the components of the bomb and how it was recovered and how they were delivered, the picture near the mail box is critical. i would remind them and the entire city is wired for surveillance. it took the grids weeks and months to get through that surveillance and piece everything together.
5:19am
i know it is hard going through all this, but i think a lot of progress has been made and i hope that will accelerate over the next couple of days. >> even though we don't have those kinds of security cameras as the police have pointed out, there were so many thousands of iphone and every other recording device pointed at that spot, you have to believe we will find things. i also have to believe that those bombs and packages could not have been there for very long without being noticed. perhaps you end up with video of people placing them there. >> this is revolutionary. everybody has a camera and taking things especially an event like a marathon. i'm with you. i'm not convinced that there will be pictures of people walking with the bags and dropping them off. from there, the fbi and joint terrorism task force can piece it with phone records and other
5:20am
tapes. it will take time to get through all of that, the fact that it's coming through from thousands of bystanders making it more difficult, but that will be the biggest brick in the case. >> editor for "vanity fair" joins us. he is here with a new film honoring his friend. up next, congressman from massachusetts joins us along with chuck todd. first, a check on the forecast. >> we are going to see a pretty big storm system make its way through the plain states. out in front we are talking about severe storms and back behind, we are talking about several inches of snow. you can see where the snow is falling across south dakota, but it's going to fill in through nebraska. that's an area that could end up with six to 12 inches of snow. on the eastern side of the cold front, the threat of severe weather. all in yellow is where we will
5:21am
most likely see large hail and damaging wind gusts. in the area in red across southeastern kansas into extreme southwestern missouri and oklahoma city, a good chance we could see isolated tornados today. the biggest threat is later on this afternoon and this evening. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. with angie's list, i save time, money, and i avoid frustration.
5:22am
you'll find reviews on home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. you want to be sure the money you're about to spend is money well spent. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. it shows. we don't run like that. we build john deere equipment the way we always have: the right way. times change. our principles don't. you don't just have our word on it. you've got our name on it. that's how we run. nothing runs like a deere. discover the full line of riding lawn equipment at johndeere.com/howwerun or your local dealer.
5:23am
at johndeere.com/howwerun with an advanced degree inoking education from capellalp them university, full potential. you'll be better equipped to deal with today's issues and make an even greater impact.
5:24am
5:25am
. 24 past the hour and a live look at the white house. back from washington, nbc chief white house correspondent and political director, chuck todd. the president headed to boston tomorrow for an interfaith service. any other plans? >> that's it and we expect him to also do a few other things and meet with folks dealing with the investigation and the joint task force as well as meet with the people and have private moments with the grieving families and visit those that are recovering. unfortunately there is a protocol. from these tragedies, this being a terrorist attack, but with the gun tragedies, there is a
5:26am
protocol with how this goes. then the president comes and you have these vigils. i have to say it bothers me that there is a protocol. i wish it weren't so predictable. this will happen and this will happen and this will happen. it means it's happening to us. >> jump on the gun in the senate, strange to see something like that and not be able to move. does the white house have a chance or is now a chance? >> do you delay? you can't help but wonder did the boston attack stall that supporters had mention and they thought they had.
5:27am
the president would be continuing a pr or a pitch on this. is there a thought now and do you delay this vote and bring it back up and maybe in a couple of weeks and not a couple of years. do you try something different and stall it a few more days. if they hold the vote and it will not get 58. it will be like 53. there will be a bunch of people who were willing to do it. if they know it's going down, they want to vote the other way.
5:28am
>> i don't understand why people answer as to why they didn't. >> it's a fair point presuming the time table gets worked out. there is growing belief that the past and some of the republicans believe they should exercise on the immigration bill and that's cross the country with the gun bill and they will be making the calculation and some of the folks that are working on the gun bill believe that there is only one semi risky thing to go after, but that assumes you think immigration reform will be a total negative and the emotion that we saw four or five years
5:29am
ago is not there. it doesn't look politically risky too and you have this assumption of risk. >> we see you on "the daily rundown." he was one of the last guys to say no. i still will be interesting to review why they hold this position. i'm not going to mess up the interview. let us know how it goes. mike in boston is with massachusetts congressman.
5:30am
>> your district with one of the victims, right down the street from the office. >> krystle campbell is part of this massachusetts family and she was just another spectator here having a good time and someone who was a fantastic person watching the parade with thousands of people running. just about every person knew someone who was here at the parade and krystle was a victim. everyone really sympathizes with her because it could have been someone they knew as well. >> one of the polls earlier in the broadcast indicated that and
5:31am
it was the garden of remembrance with all those killed with planes leaving from northern airport area. is there anything that raises the awareness that terrorism is a daily threat. >> this is just a continuation of what we learned on 9/11. mohamed att adjust used box cutters. a simple device. there is a memorial of people who were killed on that day. a couple days ago they used a pressure cooker. we have to have learned those from earlier this week. put in place the protections. i am concerned about tsa allowing knives back on to
5:32am
planes. they do try to find the simplest way and i think we have to assume if we can find that which is easy for them to use, they will perpetrate one of these heinous acts and we can't slip back into an era of complacency. >> brian has a question for you. >> there is a lot i would like to talk about. i'm a native of massachusetts, but i wanted to go past that and running for the senator seats. how do you balance what you need to do with the sensitivities of the moment? >> steve and i, the primary opponents i have from the minute this incident occurred we were going to suspend all campaigning
5:33am
and we have done that we doll it until there is an appropriate moment where we can begin campaigning and after the period of grieving and the period of time where the common wealth has an ability to be able to absorb what happened. with all of the families and everyone affected by this will bring the beginning of the closure. >> he's a friend of "morning joe" and deep ties to boston and why he would be on today for sure. at the same time your question, it's pushing back. >> it's a tough one. you still have to do your job and representing, but it's hard not to be political if you suspend the official commercials or leaflets or town hall
5:34am
meetings. it's tougher than just doing that, right? you are talking about this and in some ways your name is still out there. you can't just disappear. >> at the same time crystal lives in medfort and she grew up down the street. at the same time that i'm a candidate and i suspended all campaigning, i have a responsibility to all of the families that have been affected. everyone else in the state that wants to make sure we are going to do the right thing. this terrible event. >> congressman, thank you very much for coming on. people have been asking for you. we appreciate it. sebastian junger is here on "morning joe." back in a moment. it doesn't matter where a good idea comes from,
5:35am
it only matters that it shows up and makes things better. in that spirit, verizon is proud to announce the powerful answers award. 10 million dollars in prizes for the best ideas. ideas so big, they have the power to change everything. whether it's our inspiration, or yours, the world's biggest challenges deserve even bigger solutions. the powerful answers award from verizon.
5:36am
5:37am
5:38am
i was completely surprised by the amount of fighting going on. they were in a lot of combat. they had to raise their heads up to what was going on in afghanistan.
5:39am
during the time what was interesting is i got tired of it. there was ark drdrenaline havin do with combat. that's what it's about. >> that was a clip from which way is the frontline from here. the life and time of tim. the director of the film and best selling author, sebastian junger. >> it's tough when we as people look at clips like that. how tough was it for you the first time you started pouring in and looking at these images and trying to make sense? >> it was very hard. video technology is so intense now, on a good monitor, you feel like you are in the room with
5:40am
the person and it increased the grief and allowed me to continue my friendship with him in an odd way. >> the film made debuts and believe it or not, you were having a premier in boston. when the bombs went off. >> the jfk library caught fire. tim tied in the explosion similar to that. it was a mortar, but for the multiple amputations and the kid with an ied blast, i was in the humvee. we were blown up by a pressure cooker bomb. i don't believe in the sink ronro ronisity. >> the question that they ask and ultimately -- >> the film starts with them
5:41am
almost two years ago. he was shooting video. they are driving towards the frontline. he said to the driver, a young kid with the camera rolling, which way is the frontline from here. it's the first thing they say. we just picked that as the title because it also had this wonderful metaphor called content. he was also pushing the edge of him. >> talk about where it came from, what were you shooting it for? what was being shot for? >> tim and i were the first in libya. he went to do that and he was just shooting video and that's what he does. >> he was on camera and what were those intended for? >> those interviews came from
5:42am
all they did. they had a ton of color talking about his work. they went all the way to the oscars. he had all these interviews we can draw on and talk about his work. >> the whole concept of being unarmed is frightening. can you first of all talk about what it feels like and what person goes through that. this is not to sound harsh, but is there a sense you put yourself in that environment enough that you are on borrowed time. the odds are such that you get hit anywhere, at any time. >> yeah. there vicious people and you care deeply about the world and they put their lives at risk.
5:43am
i got out. within the hour, i decided i had too many close calls. >> quickly. >> within an hour. you have to leave before you lose all your money. >> sebastian, which way is the frontline from here on hbo tomorrow at 8:00. thank you. we are going to make a move to breaking news on the boston medical center. dr. peter burke is talking to the press about the condition of the victims that are being treated there. . >> their lungs are not working and heart is not working and depending on what you bring to the table, that can be different. >> [inaudible]. >> not that i'm aware of. i'm sure it's available. the general process when you remove things from people we send them to the pathologist. that's the process.
5:44am
they will be available, i assume. we are talking about fragments taken out of the victims in this case. >> [inaudible]. . >> he is still critical, yes. >> a lot of this and because these people had family and young children, how is that dealt with? how do you care for the family members of the critically ill? >> it's very difficult. the important thing is to remember that there is more than just the patient. the family needs to be involved. at least our process is to be up front and honest with the people and let them know as much information as we have. let them know that this is a continuous change every time. families are different. some people really want to know
5:45am
everything and some people would rather have it given the information more slowly. we need to make judgments that are sensitive to the families. in general people want to know what's going on. we are very forth coming about that. as honest as possible the situation changes overtime. it's important to have a process that was involved in that. these patients don't get better unless their families are able to take care of them. that's an important concept and we need to treat the family as much as the patient and otherwise the patients don't do as well. that's the goal. >> [inaudible]. >> we had a few injuries where the lungs are damaged from perhaps the blast or being thrown. it's hard to tell sometimes. the lungs then are bruised and they don't function as well. generally the treatment for
5:46am
those injuries are supportive and that's what we are doing. we expect the patients in question are going to get better, but again, i will not be happy until they are home. i will not be satisfied. >> i don't know if you have military experience -- [inaudible]. >> we see wounds like this not so much from blast injuries and never in this volume. i don't personally have military experience, but many of my colleagues do and made themselves available. we are not going to reinvent the wheel. when people have experience, they use it. that improves patient care. >> [inaudible]. >> that was our case as well. many of these patients were
5:47am
alert enough to know what was going on. some of them weren't because they were critically ill. the ones who were taken quickly to the operating room generally were the later. patients are involved in their care as much as we can. they get better when they are involved. better and better. >> [inaudible]. >> it's hard to classify them, but the major ones, the life-threatening were large amounts of soft tissue injuries and the blood vessels were compromised and needed to be repaired and if we don't get to them quickly and the ems is not on top of things, we can have them bleed to death. that was some of the issues going on.
5:48am
>> [inaudible]. >> some of them have pulmonary injuries and others are extremity injuries. there is one who is 5 and 60s i think. i think so. i have the break down. >> [inaudible]. >> it's a male. >> the 60-year-old? a male. >> [inaudible]. the surgeries you have, with the fragments -- >> it's both and has tow do with the size of the fragments and being able to remove them. some you can't really find them.
5:49am
it has to do with how much damage is done to the local tissues around. the only way we get people to prevent infection and keep from getting infected is the body is good at fighting infection and you need to allow the to do that and you learned to do that to make sure the tissues are viable. the blood supply is adequate and foreign bodies are removed as much as possible and the body can prevent infection and or treat the infection. antibiotics help, but they take more than that. >> in terms of operations -- [inaudible]. >> we worry about a lot of different things. there a lot of problems that patients have that they can get into. infection is a big issue. we worry about when anybody is traumatized and they have a
5:50am
higher incidence with clots in their veins that can travel to their lungs and that can be a deadly scenario. we worry about all the complications of pneumonia and things like that. there a lot of consequences that reflect out from being this critically ill and we worry about them all. try to prevent as many as possible. so far so good. >> [inaudible]. >> in our population, we had one or two head injuries and not any severe injuries. that's very lucky. we haven't had to deal with a lot of mechanical injuries. the other injuries that we worry about in blasts and we have seen the injuries to the eardrums and some of that. we had all our patients assessed by the ear, nose, and throat
5:51am
specialist to catch that overtime and deal with that. there were fragments that were four or five centimeters. big pieces of stuff. >> [inaudible]. >> i suppose it does to the people who were experts at that. as you can tell, we have a lot of lower extremity injuries. the damage was low to the ground and it wasn't up. the patient who is do have head injuries were blown into things or hit by fragments that went up. it's hard to say. >> [inaudible]. >> generally and this is true for trauma patients in general, we do the acute care part of their needs and deal with their wounds and their orthopedic and
5:52am
all injuries. at some point when those things are stabilized, the next thing is to get them to rehab. that's part of getting better. we have to move that process as quickly as possible to get them to the rehab that they need for whatever the injuries are. >> [inaudible]. >> no, we had no issues with blood supply. people looking for things to do that can help, donating blood is always good. you won't find a trauma surgeon that won't advocate for that. >> that was dr. peter burke at boston medical center talking about the conditions of the victims that they are treating in the hospital there. ranging in age from 6 to 60.
5:53am
sounds like a long process for everybody there. including possibly more surgeries and more risk of infection and still risks to their lives. standing by in boston where there some of the best doctors in the world. >> yeah, mika. obviously the main event of this story is the blast itself, the two blasts. that's clearly the main part of the story. the victims's principal event and at the edge of the story, increasingly focusing more on this story are the doctors. the nurses and the emergency units and the trauma teams that train for days like this unfortunately who reacted so marvelously. again as we hear the doctor say there is no accounting for the number of lives and limbs that save their expertise and skill.
5:54am
>> mike, i want to go to contrast real quickly. you talk about 9/11 obviously with 3,000 deaths, there is no comparison, but one of the things we hope for the people on the scene at the time, mika of course was there from the beginning and stayed there for several weeks. there was always the hope and all the people giving blood across the country. all the doctors that were lined up and waiting. the er rooms were all lined up and waiting for those people to come in. those lives that can be saved and of course those people didn't come in. there were no lives to be saved. the stories that were going to be hearing weeks from now of the multiple surgeries that are taking place right now in boston. it will be a remarkable story to be told of the best and the brightest doctors not just in boston or massachusetts and in
5:55am
america, but in the world. >> you're right, joe. it will be told. it's an amazing story and miraculous in its own way. the trauma teams available within moments of the two blasts. it's a great story that ought to be told. >> thank you. we'll be right back. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet? [ male announcer ] from our nation's networks... ♪ ...to our city streets... ♪ ...to skies around the world...
5:56am
♪ ...northrop grumman's security solutions are invisibly at work, protecting people's lives... [ soldier ] move out! [ male announcer ] ...without their even knowing it. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it's no surprise to you that companies depend on today's xerox for services that simplify how work gets done. which is...pretty much what we've always stood for. with xerox, you're ready for real business.
5:57am
5:58am
[ male announcer ] book ahead and save up to 20 percent at doubletree.com, so you can sit back, relax and enjoy. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. we will talk about what we learned today. mike, what did you learn?
5:59am
>> i learned that i am grateful to be able to pay taxes to the federal, state, and local governments to support the fbi and the atf and the national guard and state and local police. the responders in the city of boston. i am happy to pay taxes to have that support. thank you very much. >> all right. what did you learn, mika? >> exactly what mike just said and the best and the brightest and the doctors and nurses and emergency responders in boston, we can't thank you enough. more of what you are doing right now. >> i was disturbed about how to weaponize things in your kitchen. the details are unnerving. >> boston, not just the doctors, but the mayor and the governor are models for the crisis. people need to be reassured that they do a great job. >> it's way too early. what time is it? >> time for t"the daily rundow." a big mo